Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome to the Lead Defend Podcast, a show designed to help you grow in faith and leadership as you navigate the stages of young adulthood. We address important faith topics and provide practical life tips, helping you build up your faith as you engage a changing culture. Now, here are your hosts.
[00:00:29] Speaker C: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to. Welcome to another episode of Lead Defend. This is Brock, and I've got Bill here with me.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Hey, glad to be back, man. Let's roll.
[00:00:37] Speaker C: And we are the day before the time of this recording. Not the time of the listening, but the time of. Of the recording. We are the day before the Lead Defend Conference. Bill, what are you most excited for for the Lead Defend Conference tomorrow?
[00:00:50] Speaker B: I am excited about a couple things. One, it's always good to see folks like Sean that we know that are around Arkansas quite a bit. Good to connect. I'm also excited we're getting some good guys here. We don't normally get here like Strobel, and personally, I'm excited because I'm doing a TED Talk at Foundations tomorrow on transgender ideology, and I just spent two years working on that, and so I'm glad to be able to actually share it with somebody.
[00:01:11] Speaker C: Man, that's so cool. Well, I'm excited to hear that. I'll be hanging out with our middle school friends down at Lead Defend Foundations, but right now we have Sean Emery with us, and for the dedicated listeners of the podcast, you are familiar with him, but for maybe those of you who need to do a little better about listening to every episode, this might be your first interaction with. With Sean. So, Sean, thank you for being here with us.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah.
[00:01:34] Speaker C: And you have been in the state of Arkansas a ton.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: A lot.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm like an honorary Arkansan. Do you call them Arkansans?
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's fine.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: That's the right.
[00:01:43] Speaker C: Have you called the hogs yet?
[00:01:44] Speaker B: We've been called worse.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Woo, pig.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: Woo, pig.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Okay, I knew that.
[00:01:47] Speaker C: There you go. He knows that much. I mean, I'm in northwest Arkansas, so I know you've been at our church. You've been up with our friends in Pea Ridge. I think you're coming down in a couple weeks to Lakeview, just south of us. And didn't you do a camp at Camp Siloam here recently?
[00:02:02] Speaker A: I did, and I'm doing. I'm one of the speakers for Camp Siloam this summer.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: There you go. Speaker of Camp Siloam. And most importantly, you're here at the Lead Defend Conference and also going to.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Be at Super Summer.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: We should just talk about the places I've not been to Arkansas.
[00:02:18] Speaker C: So the real question is, why is Arkansas your favorite state to do ministry in?
And my guess is it has something to do with you guys keep paying me.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: That is part of it. Yes. Is.
Is money. Yeah. That's really what's just prosperity, you know, just because I think God wants us to be rich. And so that's.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: I heard you and Benny Hammer.
[00:02:36] Speaker C: So what you're saying is you're gonna go from perception artist to prosperity artist?
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, because it's. You know, man, this could go in a weird direction, but we're good.
[00:02:46] Speaker C: So. Hey, perception artist, you talked about this a little bit the last time on the podcast, but maybe quickly just let people know who you are, what you do, and kind of the nature of your craft.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Well, this is where I want to make sure I don't really clear. It's not sorcery, it's not witchcraft or anything like that. So we don't use the word magician or illusionist.
[00:03:05] Speaker C: So you don't have a top hat?
[00:03:06] Speaker A: No.
[00:03:07] Speaker C: Rabbits?
[00:03:07] Speaker A: No. I joke that I'm more likely to pull a hat out of a rabbit, which is a lot more violent and disgusting. And I may have made that joke last time, but I like to say it over and over so people get the idea. So I don't say magician or illusionist because one, it's just a little bit inaccurate, and then two, it just sends the wrong definition. We get stereotyped of like, well, that's gonna be great for my 3 year old. Or that's bad. And it's neither. And so, long story short, call it perception art. Cause it's a combination of a little bit of illusion, but then a lot of psychology and then a lot of stunts, physical stunts. Cool. We put it all together, we do a show. The show started out being sort of like, you know, effect, effect, effect. And then gospel culminates in the gospel proclamation. But then over time, what we've been able to do is being able to weave the gospel through the material so that the material becomes sowing for a harvest at the end.
[00:04:00] Speaker C: That's so cool. That's so cool. So I'm curious. And listen, you might have some gag orders, some NDAs that have been signed, but what is the weirdest thing that's happened during the show? Or has there ever been a trick that went wrong that you're just like, I did not see that coming. Or do you usually have things pretty under or can we talk about that?
[00:04:18] Speaker A: I could write a book. You could, yeah. So it's Gosh, I don't even know where to start to answer that question. Has anything ever gone wrong? All the time.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: Because you're like, putting nails in your nose, if I remember.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: Yeah, man, I got. I got stories for everybody.
[00:04:33] Speaker C: Your eyelids, Stories for everything. It just seems like the margin for error is very small.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: Yes.
Let's talk about the nail. The nail is one that I've done a lot, and there's a good reason to do it a lot, because over time, I think one of the goals of that is actually creating desensitization. The point of doing that was at the time, I was 19, and I was in college, and I was performing for really large crowds in parking lots, Walmart, mall, college campus. And I needed something that was bigger, that was gonna draw attention because I have people talking to me, and I see this opportunity. Well, like, man, they're asking me questions, but I need something that's gonna draw all the attention and just laser focus it.
[00:05:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: You know, and so I started research and doing some studying, I found out that in India, they have these street performers that do these physical stunts with fire and glass and, you know, eating razor blades and all this kind of stuff. And so I'm like, wow, that's fascinating. Well, that is actually migrated to the circus. The old school circus days. If you guys, you know, remember any of that. Yeah, kind of. Yeah.
And so then I discovered that, you know, you have to either find somebody who's worked in the circus to teach you, which is not easy.
[00:05:48] Speaker C: Yeah, they like their secrets.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: But there was a book, and this might be an interesting story. It's a little interesting little story. I'm not going to say the name of it, but there was a book that was published in the 1960s that was actually banned in the United States because it taught. It was a journalist teaching someone how these Indian performers are doing it. But it was so dangerous.
[00:06:07] Speaker C: People were trying it.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: They were trying it. People getting hurt, and. Yeah, it's. It's gnarly stuff.
[00:06:13] Speaker C: So essentially, your show comes with one of those little taglines that says attempt at all.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: Nah, we don't. We don't do a disclaimer. We encourage it, actually.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: So did you get a copy? Do you have a copy of that?
[00:06:25] Speaker A: That's the fun story. So I was. So at the time, I was 17, and so I was technically a minor, um, and trying to buy an illegal book. And.
Yeah. And so I found a guy in California who had a copy. I convinced him to sell it to me under the table, and he shipped it through the mail.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: And as a 17 year old in my dorm room, I get this book. And it was not what I expected, but I did it. I did all. I did that stuff. I've. I've eaten razor blades.
[00:06:58] Speaker C: That's crazy.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: 100%. And the secret is terrible. It's not really a magic trick. That's why I'm like, not a magic trick. This is just an awful thing to do.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:07:07] Speaker C: So what you do really hinges upon like the interest that to some extent distorting or bending reality gives people. Why do you think that's so fascinating to people?
[00:07:17] Speaker A: Well, I think to go all the way back story is, I think the most powerful thing about it's. That's one of the big things about being human is story. Because we see that all the way back to the beginning. Right. The story is the vehicle by which humans carry history and they have relationship and they carry it through generations. And then same story is how God communicates to us, how Jesus communicated to masses through parable. So it's a powerful thing. And so something I heard somebody say one time was that everybody is a storyteller. Most people just don't realize it.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: That's a good line.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: So I thought about that. And the more I thought about it, the more I realized I am communicating all the time and I need to be more aware of that. And so I saw what I do was sort of naturally storytelling and so I just worked on doing that. And so, yeah, live performance, just like tv, music, you know, all it tells a story. And the story that I wanted to tell was Jesus. And some of the deeper things that maybe people wouldn't hear or lend their ear to.
[00:08:23] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So in that, in those shows, how do you use the tricks, the stunts? You mentioned weaving the gospel through, kind of sewing it through the performance. So then to kind of have that payoff at the end, what is it that you're trying to do as you have these distortions of reality, these different tricks that you're bringing people into this story to then show them the biggest story at the end.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: So what I, what I normally tell people, anytime I'm teaching evangelism or I'm doing like a workshop, I tell people that there's really two approaches to this. Yeah, there's, there's kind of the, the standard age old, you know, stand on a milk crate with a megaphone and talk at people. Right. And hope for the best. But what if you could earn the ear of your audience? And so that's something that, that I Think with the show or the material that I'm doing, the goal is, is this going to earn the ear of my audience? And if it is, which means it has to be good. It has to be amazing enough quality. Yeah, hopefully. But then if I can do that, then what do I want to say with that? That capital investment. Yes. Yeah. And so that's where I really want people to come to the show. That's an investment. I want them to stick around. I want to be excited. That's an investment. It's a constant investment with people that are.
I mean, we say that we're a mission to unchurched, but also churched that are just aren't saved, because there's a difference there. But we're trying to target people.
I'll say it like this. I may have mentioned this on the last podcast. If you walk into any lunchroom in a cafeteria called the Lunchroom Analogy, you have all these tables, all these cliques, what cast the net as wide as possible. Can you sit at any table? Can you sit with the athletes? Can you. Can you sit with the goth kids? Can you sit with the band kids? Are you able to sit at any table and strike up a conversation? So that's sort of how I approach material and performing.
[00:10:18] Speaker B: Cool.
Well. So you've been doing this for how long?
[00:10:22] Speaker A: A long time.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Long time. Long time.
[00:10:25] Speaker C: At least since 17.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Well, true.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: I'm old.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: So this has been a path you've been on for a while, and the Perception Artist has been kind of the main thing that you've done. We've had you at Super Summer a couple of times. Got you again this year, but. But God's kind of beginning not to fully transition you by any stretch of the imagination, but beginning to open a second door maybe, along with doing the Perception Artist stuff, doing some other things. So share with our listeners about that. And then after you do that, we'll talk about a specific thing that you're doing here in Arkansas that helps further that as well.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: Are you talking about teaching and speaking? Yeah. That's been very unexpected. Very unexpected. And if you know my testimony with my speech impediment that I think we had talked about prior, that makes it all the more unexpected.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: So take a moment and share that. For those who don't know that story or haven't heard that podcast, the highlights.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: Of that are, I was born with a speech impediment that was so severe, I really couldn't talk right until I was about 16. And so it was really difficult to have conversations. I Wrote stuff down on a notepad. A lot, you know, it was just easier. But only recently found out, I mean, we tried to treat it. Nothing really worked. When I was 16, it in the most Baptist way possible, it miraculously went away on its own. No idea why. And I have taken advantage of that ever since, trusting that that was God's plan. So all that to say. We just found out a few years ago that it was called. It's a condition called apraxia. And the person I was talking with was a speech pathologist researcher. And they actually said something interesting. She said that was the only person they'd ever heard of that was cured.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: You know, of. Of this condition. So with that said, that's sort of my background. So ever Since I was 16, I've been traveling, performing, speaking, which is very strange. It was not possible whenever I was a teenager that I would. Could go up to somebody and share the gospel.
[00:12:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: You know, just with my words. And so now I'm at a point where we're seeing that come full circle. We started doing events. So I just did an event recently with a friend of mine, a really, really big church in Houston.
And he said, you know, we're doing. We were doing a D now three sessions on Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He said, you know, so we're gonna have three different speakers, and you're gonna be the guy for truth because kind of goes into what you do, right? And I was like, cool, so do you want me to do like a show and then, like, talk a little bit? And he was like, you do whatever you want. And I was like, but what does that mean?
What does that mean? Because typically, for years it's been, you know, if I just show up and talk, people are gonna be like, we thought you did stuff.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: So where's the trick?
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Where's the thing that you do? And so I kept asking, I've asked him literally four times, and he goes, man, I trust you. If you do one thing, if you do eight things, you're the speaker for truth. He's like, I defer to you. Mind blowing. And that was one of the first times that I really felt like just having the freedom to do that. We did do stuff, but it was. I felt like, man, this is. This is right. This really packed a punch.
[00:13:38] Speaker C: Yeah. What makes you the truth guy? I know some of that plays into to your. Your show kind of the what is real versus what is what is false. But what, you know, what made you such a fitting person for that Topic of truth. And how does that play into your show? And how do you see that kind of molding into your new ability to speak in a way that is more different than the shows and kind of the production side that you put on in the past?
[00:14:08] Speaker A: This is a kind of interesting segue into just what I'm talking about. At Lead Defend, I felt sort of convicted with a really specific. Because I had some ideas like, man, I could talk about this, I could talk about that. But I'll just tell you the title of what I'm going to talk about. Elite Defend is the Screwtape lecture.
[00:14:23] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: All right.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: And so the idea behind that was. So it goes back to why I call myself Perception Artist, magician, illusionist is based in deception, where we're obfuscating the truth.
[00:14:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Well, I wanted to, like, hammer a nail in my face.
[00:14:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Which is real. There's no trick.
[00:14:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:42] Speaker A: We, we printed an X ray, made a poster. We sell it for merch. We got a video of a doctor explaining it before you see it. I mean, we've literally done everything a magic would never do.
[00:14:51] Speaker C: Yeah. It's like this is how the trick.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Is done and people still don't believe it.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: How did you do the nail trick?
[00:14:57] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like, no, no, no. Really, what's the secret?
[00:14:59] Speaker A: So that's why Perception Artist, instead of based in deception, we're based in perception.
[00:15:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: So the whole idea is that I've spent all this time studying, for lack of a better term, the weapon of the enemy, which is essentially just counterfeiting the truth. So it's, it's 99% true. You know, it's just a little bit of poisoning the well. So I've studied how that works in crime and con artists and pickpocking, casino cheating. That's sort of my, My background. That's what I learned. So learning all of the techniques in that world and then actually going into that world and testing my metal for, you know, just to see, like, is this, Am I real or not? Can I actually do this?
[00:15:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Has, I think, given me at least some credibility to at least, you know, at least shine some light on it.
[00:15:47] Speaker C: Yeah. You said you, you're. You're studying the weapon of the enemy, which is deception. Define a little bit more for, for our listeners, I would say most probably know what you're talking about. But, but who is that enemy? And what do you mean that that enemy uses a weapon of deception? What are the. Like, unpack that. What does that look like in the average, you know, College student's life and the average student leader's life.
[00:16:07] Speaker A: Yeah. First I'll say enemies, enemies. Bible says we have three. And I think that's important because otherwise, if you don't know you're being flanked, right. You're. You're going to get surprised. And so the heart, the world, and then the adversary, those, those three things. And the adversary, I wouldn't even just limit it to just the devil. You know, there's more. And so there's a whole system there. There's a whole government. And so. Yeah, so. So there's. There's three enemies, but then there's the. The issue with talking about weapons. And this is something I've thought about for a while. It's sort of the same issue you run into with evangelism and even apologetics, where Christians can get into the weeds of talking about symptoms rather than the sickness. So having conversations. I mean, we've all seen it where a Christian will get into this heated debate with a non Christian, especially on college campuses. And it ends up going from the gospel, a gospel focus, to a moral kind of, you know, symptomatic focus. And it's like, man, we started talking about Jesus and now we're talking about homosexuality and gay marriage. And, you know, how did we get misdirected? How do we get sidetracked? And so I really think that the weapon. Weapon of the enemy is that it's just deception. And that's something I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk about in my screwtape lecture. And if I had to define it in four words, did God really say right in Genesis 3? It's. It's when you have God's word, our standard for truth. God has. He has said what he said, and he's meant what he said. He's immutable. He doesn't change. He doesn't, you know, mince words. We have his word. It's the monopoly of on truth. To even ask for the serpent in the garden to even ask, did God really say is to. He's not asking innocent question. He's questioning God's character as perfect, holy, and his goodness.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: So just asking the question.
That is the problem. All sin can be traced back to those four words. So for the college student, if you're, if you're ever wondering, you know, how did I get this? How did I get here? Right. If you trace that line back, it's always those four words, did God really say? And it's a. It's little yeses over time that's I just. I love the word insidious because that's really what it is. It's. It's a gradual thing, you know?
[00:18:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: That's good. Well, that twisting of the truth is a huge thing that happens. So you're going to talk about that tomorrow at Lead Defend. You're going to do the same thing at Foundations. You do something different for them.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Well, that's. So I think that's going to be. That's going to be foundations. The foundations talk. I think Lead Defend. I've been going back and forth. Lead Defend. I might take a more. Because that feels more foundational for Lead Defend with it being college students in high school with them. I'm. I'm considering giving them sort of a peek behind the curtain of how.
How I took my art form as a vehicle for the gospel.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: And on some level, maybe it can encourage painters, artists, musicians in the room.
[00:19:12] Speaker C: Yeah. Is Corey Epps leading Worship up the hill? I would love it if you could go tell Corey that Brock Caldwell said that you needed to put a nail in his nose. Like, I just need you to do that.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: Just Cory and I are friends.
[00:19:23] Speaker C: Personal favor for me.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: That's why we're asking.
[00:19:26] Speaker C: Yeah. So. So as you're seeing these new opportunities, I think this could be really helpful for people. You're doing something now, even beyond the perception stuff that you didn't think would ever be a possibility.
How is it that you look back, what are things that maybe God did that prepared you to do the things that you're able to do now? And what are the things that maybe you did that you look back and see? It was like, man, if I wasn't doing all of these different things, I wouldn't be able to step. Because I think we have a lot of people that might not be public speaking. It might not be perception art. But they have an opportunity now at a pivotal point in their lives as college students or as young leaders to. To get ready for that next step in the future that they don't even know what God is going to do. So what were the things that you see God has done in the past that they could look and ask for God to do? And what were the things that maybe you partnered with God or you did kind of that working out what God is working in to make it possible for now, when someone says, hey, will you come and speak? You may at first feel a little intimidated, but you're like, all right, let's do this. Let's step into this new door that God's opened.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: Boy, I love this question. You buckle up, let's go. It's a two part, It's a two part. So I'm gonna answer it in two different ways. First of all, what did God do? God did everything. And you hear people say that and it's like faux humility. I'm saying it for real. I didn't, this is, this is my little bit of my Calvinism coming out. I, I'm really good at being rescued.
I did nothing.
[00:20:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: I have not done anything worthy of this. What? The fact I'm in this room right now is really kind of bewildering to me. Whenever I, whenever you guys first contacted me to be at Lead Defend, I went and looked it up and it's like it's an apologetics conference. What am I, what am I going to say? I don't know, I'm not smart. I'm not, I'm not your Bill Newton, you know, expert on everything. No, like, so I genuinely feel that way day to day. And here's what I'll say. Even, even in an unhealthy way, I feel like that. So my superpower is authenticity. I don't care about cool or wealth. I can't be bought. I just, I'm apathetic. Right. And so I'll just straight up tell you I'm the same guy on stage, off stage. So I'm telling you right now, I don't feel like qualified. I don't feel that. I feel like I'm really good at being rescued. And that's how I pray often before a show, before an event, for this event even, I've, I prayed today.
God, I need, I need you to swoop down and show me how to do it. Because I got nothing. I got no hope. Now that's the first part. The second part of this question is, and this is where it's going to sound counter intuitive what I'm saying. But for some reason, this is the mystery and that's how it works. Right. With that said, I also worked more on the skill set that I've developed then most people can probably wrap their mind around. I can put actual numbers to it.
I mean, I can tell you straight up, I'm definitely met the hundred thousand hour practice amount.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: Well, when you told me about the black market book deal, I was just like, this guy's committed.
[00:22:41] Speaker A: Yeah. I just, the way I started is I was 16 years old. I, I went all in and I, I, it was kind of a one shot thing, you know, we're we're gonna, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna give it a hundred percent and we're just gonna see. We're gonna see what happens. And if it didn't work, then okay, that's fine. But man, it worked. I. I spent every day, nine months practicing stuff people don't even know about anymore from books written in the 1800s, you know, so I learned this stuff. I stand up at my school, I show, I, I do it, and everyone just loses their mind. It's been a, like a launch pad ever since. And so what's crazy is that I worked hard during that nine months. I worked harder the next three years. So eight hours a day, every day, minimum. The long. I mean, I spent 76 hours. I remember as a teenager in high school, 76 hours straight. I didn't leave, I didn't go party, I didn't eat, I didn't sleep, I didn't do my homework, I didn't do any of that. Yeah, all my friends were watching movies, playing Xbox, they were playing video games, they were doing all that stuff. I was working.
[00:23:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:49] Speaker A: And I'm not saying that to say I'm awesome. It was unhealthy. But that, that followed me into college, but it opened up so many opportunities. I was able to go to Vegas and study with famous people. I was able to perform. I mean, I've been able to like, do all this stuff. And on a technical level, it's. I mean, it's just hard work. Manufactured.
[00:24:11] Speaker C: So it sounds like two, two sides. One, a significant awareness of God's, of God's rescue, of, of his, of his involvement in your life. But then also a significant discipline to, to work at the things that you feel like God's calling you to.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Awareness is a great word. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's thrown me in all these different situations that a less aw would have crumbled under. But because I was constantly walking into the gauntlet, so to say, I learned all through all that trial and all the struggle and all the darkness, because I mean, I went to Vegas when I was 17 and everyone around me was like, why would you go to Sin City?
But me going there by myself as a 17 year old, I mean, I paid for out of pocket, right. I saw crazy stuff and I'm sitting in the living room. People who are actual witches, you know, and that, that's kind of their background and I mean, it really helped me learn how to witness later because I'm not scared of that. We're supposed to go to Dark Places. Yeah, I'll. I'll tell you one thing that was just really formative. I won't say the name of it, but it was whenever I was in student ministry as a kid and I started doing this. I went to summer camp, and it was a really, really big camp. We. We've all heard of it, but it was probably 2,000 students at this camp, and it wasn't one state. It was kind of all over, and I was performing stuff, and all my. My.
The kids in my youth group were like, man, this is crazy. This is crazy. Showing me around. And, like, we're just. It was super fun, right? And the main speaker that week came up to me and said, hey, Sean, how are you doing? Like, you want to sit down and. And kind of chat? And I'm like, whoa, whoa. I mean, think about it. Super summer. Imagine the guy on stage coming up to you in the middle of the field, you know, hey, can we sit down and talk? I want to talk about what you're doing in your gift. I was like, yeah. And he sat me down. And this story has a. Has not a. Not really a pleasant story, but he literally just was like, tell me about it, you know, telling him all this stuff, how I'm like, man, I'm working really hard. I want to be able to do this in ministry. I think, like, I could actually do this to share the gospel.
[00:26:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: And the speaker just straight up told me, as a kid, that's wrong. That's blasphemous. It's blasphemous. It's sinful. You need to stop right now. And the other churches at this camp had actually had a. A meeting to banish me from summer camp. And my. My student pastors. Well, it wasn't my student pastors. One of the adults said, hey, this kid, he's a. He's a Christian. And, like, anyway, apparently got pretty intense. But so it was experiences like that that weren't pleasant. They weren't, you know, awesome. You know, when. Whenever I see college students or kids who are like, man, I'm just so excited to get into ministry, I'm kind of like, well, okay, that's what you need.
[00:27:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Okay. What kind of ministry.
[00:27:21] Speaker C: What state was that in, did you say?
It wasn't a, hey, let's figure out who those people were. But it was more of the fact of, like, real potential that you're ministering to their kids or grandkids.
[00:27:34] Speaker A: It was a beach camp put on by a very, very large Christian organization.
[00:27:37] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, but I mean, the way that God even works through our, our challenges and the obstacles and the things where people try to push us back and, and you know, your, your continued devotion, discipline. Yet at the same time, again, there's people that probably discouraged you that now you have some realm of influence with that same age demographic.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. When, Yeah, I mean, to answer your question, like what does a college student do? What do I say to them? The basics, honest to goodness, like we've been doing it for 2000 years, it was good enough for Jesus. Prayer, Bible study, like man clinging to it, desperate. So what I say is you start out doing that stuff as, as, as a discipline and then at some point it needs to become survival. Yeah, I'm surviving.
[00:28:25] Speaker C: Yeah, there you go.
[00:28:26] Speaker B: Well, going back to your two part answer and tell me if I'm wrong, but here, here's what I'm hearing and this is what I love about how God works is you, you do what you can on your part to prepare and make yourself available and then you wait for God to open the doors. It is. God opens the door. God calls us to do stuff, but it doesn't call us just to sit on our hands and wait. And he's going to take care of every little thing. We do have the responsibility, what theologians call cooperation of the Holy Spirit. Right. We do have the responsibility to do what we're supposed to do on our part and then trust God to take that and multiply that, use that. Is that a correct way of.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: Absolutely what you're saying? Yeah, absolutely.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: So. So I love that especially for those who I think are in high school, college who feel called to ministry, are who want to be used by God. Maybe not in quote unquote, full time ministry walls, but hey, I want to be an engineer or I want to be a perception artist or I want to be an athlete, something that, that's my avenue for getting people the gospel. But there is still that preparation side of things, right?
[00:29:20] Speaker A: Get awesome at something, then sacrifice it on the altar.
[00:29:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good.
[00:29:23] Speaker A: And be used.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: That's good. I love that.
[00:29:25] Speaker C: That's really good.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: Yeah, Sean, that's good.
[00:29:27] Speaker C: You've been all over the state of Arkansas. People want to hear more from you. What? Where can they connect? Website, social media handles.
Where can they find you?
[00:29:35] Speaker A: If they just go to Walmart or like any of those local restaurants around Arkansas, they'll probably see me hanging around.
[00:29:43] Speaker C: Hang some student pastor paying for your day.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
Website. Sean Emery dot com. Just my name, Sean, spelled the right way. S E A N. I Want to make clear because there's three clubs like Sean, great actor. Yeah, yeah. Sean Connery, you know, my namesake. Yeah. And so, yeah, Sean Emery. And then Instagram, we do a lot of stuff on Instagram. That's Sean underscore Emory. And so, yeah, we're doing a lot of stuff. We're literally in the process of. Bill, I don't know if you want to, if you're going to mention that at all, but that's, that's something. We're even rolling out as well. My wife does what's going on. Amazing graphic design, admin. And she's been working on putting together like a nice neat little package.
[00:30:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it's cool. So we, if you, if you don't know, there's a few times we've done this, but say we. The Arkansas Baptist State Convention has partnered with Sean and his ministry to do basically community outreach, gospel oriented events we call Fuel and Fire.
[00:30:34] Speaker C: Sweet. And so that's what you guys did in Peerage, right?
[00:30:36] Speaker B: Yep. So we did one in Valonia back in January, did Pea Ridge in February if I remember right. And the goal for us is to do six a year, maybe three in the spring, three in the fall though that, that is flexible, but that kind of helps us spread things out. But basically come in and do some evangelism training on Sunday night for partner churches. Try to get Shawn in the school on Monday and Tuesdays, maybe Wednesday morning to do character ed assemblies or if that's not possible, there are some other creative ways to get Shawn into the school and in front of students. And it culminates in a Wednesday night community wide RA rally where he does exactly what he's talking about, uses his hard work that he's done to end up bringing people the gospel message and then offering up a response time. And so we've done two of these so far and they both gone really well. And so if you are connected to a Southern Baptist church in Arkansas, whether you are on staff or maybe you're a volunteer there as a college minister or a. Sorry, as a college student or even a high school student, but would like to bring this into your area, man, please reach out and contact me, Bill Newton at the state convention. And we would love to talk about what that looks like because really our goal is multi. We do want to get the gospel out, but one of the other requirements for that is to have multiple churches on board. Just one church can't do this. We want this to facilitate community within the churches and the community that's there to have them partner together along with getting the gospel out.
[00:31:57] Speaker C: Fuel and fire. Is there real fire?
[00:32:00] Speaker A: There's not real fire for insurance purposes. Yeah.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: It's more of a metaphor for the Holy Spirit, but, you know.
[00:32:07] Speaker C: Yeah, listen, we're. We're swollen razors, we're putting nails in our nose. It's not too far of a thing.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: That's true.
[00:32:14] Speaker C: There would be actual fire.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.
[00:32:17] Speaker C: You have to. You have to get the premium package for real fire. Hey, guys, thank you so much for listening to Lead Defend podcast, Sean. Thank you for being here and everywhere else in the state of Arkansas. We are getting ready for the conference tomorrow. By the time you listen to this, I want you to know we are already planning hard.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:32:33] Speaker C: For Lead Defend 2026. And so go to leaddefend.org for all that information. Until then, we will see you next time.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: That's it for this episode of Lead Defend. To hear more episodes from the Lead defend crew, visit absc.org podcasts if you liked what you heard, rate and review us on your favorite podcast listening site. Want to learn more information about the next Lead Defend conference? Visit leaddefend.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: Org.
