"Embracing The Call" with Brian Mills

[00:00:10] Speaker A: Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Lead Defend podcast. I am Bill Newton, your host, and glad to be with you today. We are here with Brian Mills. Glad to have Brian with us today. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Good to be here. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Yeah, man, glad to have you in Arkansas. So for our listeners who may not be familiar with you, tell them a little bit about you and your history because though you're not in Arkansas now, you've got deep roots in Arkansas. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Deep roots, man. We'll pick all the way even when we lose. Amen. Yeah. I'm originally from Hot Springs. Took my first church in Springdale, Arkansas is when I had the first opportunity to go be a student pastor. Served there as an intern and then did student ministry there for several years. For I moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma and then made some other moves along the way, all doing student ministry, next generation ministry, while then eventually came back. Before I went to be senior pastor in Oklahoma City, I was doing college ministry at the University of Arkansas, a place called Cross Church. I had the opportunity to lead C3 Cross Church College. And during that season, I was also had the opportunity to partner with Nick Floyd in being a chaplain at the University of Arkansas football program. So that was a lot of fun. Even though we didn't win, it was still a lot of fun. We had a great time. [00:01:24] Speaker A: I think not winning is part of the tradition, unfortunately. [00:01:28] Speaker B: You know, just. Just quick story. The other day when we were playing Tennessee, we got to the start of the second half and Tennessee came out and started dominating Arkansas. And it was a late night. My current church I'm at, I preached three services on Sundays. Sundays are long days. So I looked at my wife and said, I'm not staying up for a defeat. I'm going to bed. And I went to bed and I missed out on one of the greatest wins we've had in the past few years. So God bless me, but I'm still a Razorback all the way. [00:01:58] Speaker A: Well, that's awesome and we're glad to have you here. We're actually recording at the annual meeting. And so Brian's here for this, for the pastors conference and so appreciate him being here and being a part of this. For folks that aren't familiar with Brian, he is very good at leadership. That's why I asked him to be on the Lead Defend podcast. But also he has a heart for college students and for student ministry, though he's a lead pastor now and. And that kind of runs in your family a little bit. Your brother Sean was student pastor for a long time, served at the Arkansas Baptist State Convention for a little bit. And that's in that statewide student pastor role. And so your family is thick in ministry. Man. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Man. Yeah. Sean and I both, you know, we grew up. My dad's a contractor or was a contractor in Hot Springs, Arkansas. My mom was a sixth grade school teacher. And nobody ever been in ministry in our life. And we don't have a legacy of pastors or youth pastors in our family. But our parents just took us to church and got us involved in the local church. It's not like we were very faithful church members, but it wasn't like they were chairman of the deacons or any of that, you know, just my brother and I fell in love with Jesus. And my brother was called to ministry first. My brother's always been a great mentor in my life and encouragement in my life. And then through a couple years later, I felt called to ministry, was at a youth camp, and at the youth camp, I was sitting on the back row. I'll never forget it. And the whole ministry went forward that day. Called to ministry. You ever give him one of those invitations? And it was one of those good evangelists, you know, and he just paved the path so well and said, everybody come forward. If you feel called to ministry, we'll to work in the local church. And so the half the room came forward. I'm like, golly, I know the sin. Those people are like, there's no way they're going to work at the church. And I was doing a side business at the time as a teenager, and it was very successful. We were just mowing yards and doing some of that stuff and kind of thought my path would be that would start my own company in landscaping and lawn care. And we would drive along and see what the Lord would do with that. But then the evangelist that day said, he goes, there's probably one more person that needs to come forward to work in the church one day. And honestly, as supernatural as it sounds, I really felt like the Holy Spirit just picked me up on that back row and just walked me forward and said, you're going into ministry. And from that day forward, I committed to the call of God on my life. And I ran to it, not from it. And my brother was a great example for that. And he ran to his, not from his. And I'm not saying there hasn't been a lot of bumpy paths along the way. Anybody that served in the church has had some bumpy roads, but my call is greater than a bumpy road. And the vision and the Purpose that God's given me is greater than any challenge that has come before me. And so we've stayed focused on the call of God. And I go back, I'll be honest with you, sometimes I need to go back. And I don't know who's listening today that might be questioning their path and their journey in life. And whatever your calling is might not be vocationally, but in your area of business or your area of life, or maybe a college kid that's leaning in, that's like, do I really want to stick with this degree? But you really feel like God told you to do it, then go back to the marker when God called you to do it. And for me in ministry sometimes, it's been frustrating and it's been tiring, it's been exhausting. But I go back to that supernatural moment I had with me and the Lord right there at that youth camp right down here in Lonsdale, Arkansas. I forget the name Spring Lake. Hey, I forgot the name of that camp. Spring Lake right there is in the outdoor amphitheater of Spring Lake, if you're familiar with it. [00:05:35] Speaker A: I am. [00:05:35] Speaker B: And sitting right back there in one of those old wood pews. And it was a supernatural moment for me. And that was a moment that moved me forward for my purpose and my calling. And so I go back to that moment. Often when I'm frustrated, when I'm tired, when I'm exhausted, I go back to that moment. Just remember what God did in my life and that I'm living in God's call and not Brian's emotion or Brian's feelings or some tough patch I came across for this season. But I'm living in God's call. And my brother had that same moment in his life and now he gets a lead. Gosh, I mean, a crazy God sized movement in Vilonia, Arkansas. Gosh, what God's doing in and through his church is insane. It's an inspiration to me as I get to pastor where I'm at today. So, yeah, it's a deep calling that just kind of birthed in two dudes. And we said, let's just go be faithful and follow Jesus with where we are. [00:06:32] Speaker A: That is awesome. Thank you for sharing that story. One of the things that as we work with college students, even high school students through Explore your call, which is one of the things that we have in the state to come alongside students who feel called to ministry, One of the things that we try to help them understand is God's calling shows up so many different ways and so many different people. So I appreciate you taking the time to share that call. And out at Lonsdale, man. [00:06:54] Speaker B: And I think a lot of people come forward. Just like that day with me right there at Spring Lake, half the place came forward. And it's interesting, several years down the road, it's probably 20 years later, I ran into one of my old high school mates. And when I ran into him, he had actually come forward with me and we were in the call ministry together. But when he got into college, he kind of drifted away and went a different path. And he had done well in business and in life. And he came back to me and we got together and I said, man, what are you up to now? And he started sharing with me and then he said this. He said, you remember when we all went forward in that call to ministry there at that camp in Lonsdale? I said, yeah, man, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing today. He said, I ran from that and it's still heavy on my life today that I didn't follow through with God's call. [00:07:45] Speaker A: Wow. [00:07:45] Speaker B: And I think I just missed. My final purpose was for me to be in ministry. And I think that's where a lot of people get. They get called to ministry maybe in high school, but then they don't really develop that call and they go do what they're going to do and it's a blessing and they feel like this is a good journey. But you still have that inward desire that, man, God had something really special for me in a local church and I ran from it. So maybe if somebody's out there thinking, am I called to ministry? Or I face a call to ministry, but I don't know if I want to do it or not. Don't let the enemy win in your life. Chase after the call of God. And if God put a call in your life, don't let fear get in the way. Don't let the lack of not knowing enough is one of my fears. I'm not as smart as you, Bill. You are brilliant. Alright? So like you could sit here and debate and talk and you're deep and I'm just not. I'm just the redneck. Right? And. But that was real intimidating to me early on. [00:08:46] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:08:47] Speaker B: But some point the enemy was using that intimidation to keep me from stepping out in my call. And I just had to be secure in who I am and secure in who God made me to be and stand alongside each and every one of us, have a certain gifting And a certain talent, a certain uniqueness that God designed us. And if we live in that, we can go live in our call and not try to be somebody we're not. And that was something I really had to grab a hold of to find that security in who God made me to be so I could go be who God made me to be. And that was a big deal in my call. [00:09:23] Speaker A: That's good. That's a good word. So as a pastor, as a guy who worked with college students and high school students, junior high students, when they felt a call to ministry was there, is there a particular resource or something you would direct students who feel called to ministry toward? [00:09:36] Speaker B: We're actually leaning into that right now. I mean, I think some of the stuff Shane Pruitt at North American Mission Board is putting out his book on, on the Call, My Son is Called to ministry. He's actually reading that book right now. Shane has not paid me or asked me to promote his stuff, but I do believe he's putting out a lot of great content right now through the North American Mission Board. And so I'm grateful for all Shane is doing through that. I would encourage people to dive into what he's putting out. We're actually implementing some stuff in our church right now through our youth pastor. We've had a lot of kids called to ministry, and so we're really wanting to raise them up and develop them. We have a ministry called our influence Team. It's our student serve team. If you're called to ministry and you really want to elevate that call and grow in that call, we require you to be on that serve team and serve in our church in many different ways. This summer, we actually did a free internship for our Call to Ministry kids, and we would require them to work at church twice two times a week. And. And they'd have to be there at 8 in the morning, and they would stay and do campus ministry and everything else. And they had to sign the church covenant. They were employee of the church for free. [00:10:45] Speaker A: Wow. [00:10:46] Speaker B: And this was not my dream. My youth pastor's name is Anthony Vargas. He actually dreamed this, and I thought it was brilliant. [00:10:53] Speaker A: Yes, it is. [00:10:53] Speaker B: And so we did that. He also made them come on Sundays, and they had to be there all day. Now we have three services. We start prayer time at 7am they had to be there at 7am and they had to go. And if they didn't commit and didn't honor the full commitment, we'd let them go. They couldn't work for us. So they had the same expectation of an employee, and so it started developing their call. And so I think in every context, in every church, you have something, a unique way to grow them. And I would just encourage you, be sure they're serving in every church. And if you're called to ministry, be sure you're serving in every church. If you're called to ministry, you ought to make it a priority that Sunday's important to you and that you're there every Sunday, but you're not just there, you're serving. You're a part of it. And then for church leaders that might be diving into the podcast, I think we ought to be mentoring those called to ministry at least once a month. We ought to be pulling them in because the enemy's gonna try to convince them this is not it. So we gotta disciple them and guide them. And that's a big ownership of us as leaders, spiritual leaders, pastors, whatever it might be in their life. It's important for us to disciple them up into that so that we can send them out. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Yeah, very good. And that's one of the things I like about Shane's book. I'm not paid by Shane either, but that's one of the things I like about. [00:12:11] Speaker B: You're welcome, Shane. [00:12:13] Speaker A: Yeah, that's one of the things that I like about Shane's book. So we've been doing a few explore your call zooms with students getting that off the ground. And so I have a particular called a ministry book. I really like Jeff Orge's is God calling me book. But one of the things we've encouraged those students is read that book on your own, but find somebody in your church, youth, pastor, pastor, deacon, somebody that's got some ministry experience to walk through Shane's book, because I think his book has lined out really well, 12 chapters, and we've talked about that very thing. Do a chapter a week or a chapter a month. Have somebody pour into you. [00:12:41] Speaker B: So let me ask you a question on this bill. So you guys are doing that currently with Arkansas Baptist? [00:12:47] Speaker A: Yes. So we have. [00:12:48] Speaker B: Tell us about that. [00:12:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:49] Speaker B: Now I'm down doing the interview. [00:12:51] Speaker A: Now you get to be it. Yeah. So we've launched Explore your call, which we've. We had for a while, and then Covid hit like everything else shut down and then just haven't had a chance to kickstart it. So with me being new in the position, we are relaunching Explore your call. So we've got a remind out there that has got 100 or so students on it that they can be a part of. And so we have done two zooms where I've kind of walked them through the big picture of Jeff Orge's book. Encourage them to do Shane's book with somebody in their ministry circle. And then coming in the spring, we'll be telling you more about this listeners. But if you check the explore your call website, we actually have roundtables that we're doing across the state in the spring to try to get face to face with those students who feel called to ministry. [00:13:32] Speaker B: Man, that's fantastic. So everybody can sign up and just be a part of that. [00:13:36] Speaker A: Yep, yep. And so. So if you're in high school or college, be on the lookout. Check out the explore your call website. Okay. I was going to give a commercial at the end, but I'll go and give it now since we're doing. But yeah, but yeah, check out the explore your call website for the Arkansas Baptist State Convention and you'll see those roundtables. We have those, I believe, on the website. And we're still getting all the details together of who's going to be there. But if you feel called to ministry or if you're wrestling with the call to ministry, you're not sure that'll be a great thing to be a part of. [00:13:59] Speaker B: Man, the church needs you. So, yeah, the church, we need people to continue to rise up, men and women to rise up in their call to ministry and to use that gifting in the local church all over, not just the state of Arkansas, but all over the US and around the world for the gospel. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. So cool. So thanks for that plug. I appreciate it. [00:14:15] Speaker B: Yeah, you're welcome. Bill didn't ask me to do that, by the way. But I do think it's fascinating when we lean into that concept of the call to ministry and the resources that you guys provide as Arkansas Baptist I think is so key and crucial for all that has taken place. So I love it, man. That's great. [00:14:33] Speaker A: That's cool. Thanks, man. So one of the resources that you've developed, speaking of resources, over the last couple of years, was you put out a book helping students transition from high school to college life, which is a really great book. My last couple of years in student ministry, we gave that book out. So tell our listeners a little bit about that book because that transition time is so crucial. Yeah. [00:14:52] Speaker B: So it's called A different college experience. How to follow Christ in college. The way it originated was me and my co author, Ben Trueblood. We were sitting on a bus and we were actually coming back from a trip that we did down to NASA in Florida, driving back to Orlando on a bus, and I just transitioned into college ministry. And he looked at me and he said, hey, what would you do different now that you're a college pastor, hanging out with college kids if you went back and did youth ministry? Because I did youth ministry for 20 years, and I had youth ministries as small as seven and largest couple thousand teenagers in the ministry. And so we had been through this whole student ministry culture. And he said, man, I'm just really fascinated what you would go back and do different. I started writing them down, and he and I just talked on the bus and we wrote them down. He goes, hey, you know what? We just wrote chapters of a book. And so we took that concept, and I went back to C3 Cross Church College Ministry, and I pulled in college leaders, my actual college students who were leaders. And I said, I got a concept we're working through. What do you guys think? And they helped me dream what the actual content was of the book. So here's why. It's one of my favorite books that I've written and that I've done is because it has very little to do with me. It has a lot to do with college kids. Ben True Blood being a big part of that, with what he was doing nationally across student ministry culture. And we kind of took those concepts, put them all in a book, and mapped it out from everything from the theology of knowing God's word to salvation, all the way to the importance of working hard and just kind of that sanctification process all kind of put into one book a little bit. And it really has been a powerful tool that churches have used, and really grateful churches have used it to hand to seniors. And I pray it's been beneficial to them and helpful to them as well. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Cool. Well, it's a great resource, man. It's much needed. So many things in youth ministry, student ministry, we're intentional about, but that transition time is so crucial. And one of my experiences has been that's easy to let fall through the cracks because it is a busy time. We with proms and graduation and the transition. And it's easy to just kind of let students and assume they're gonna transition well in their faith. And so being intentional, such a weird spot. [00:17:11] Speaker B: Their senior year, they get to that second half of their. That last semester, you're in March, April, May, and your seniors got senioritis or checked out. Then you get to summertime, and they don't know what to do. They're like, do I still go to student ministry? But I'm not really a college student yet. They're lost in this land of unknown. And so how do we capitalize on the land of unknown? One thing we're doing right now in our church, we gave this an attempt last year, and we're doing it again this year, is we're actually using that book. Not just because it's my book, but it is a great resource through what these college students help produce. And we're taking that book and we're actually pulling them out the latter part of their senior year and creating like. Like this unknown land small group. And it's on Sunday morning and it's a senior group only, but it's navigating your way into college. And we're actually providing helps on them as they go into college. People that can come in and speak into their life on how to get ready for college, but also how to live for Christ in this college experience. Because a college experience is dark and scary and lonely at times. The college experience is an experience of wonder and where you kind of navigate into this own world of, you know, are you going to chase after your freshman and sophomore year the ways of the world, and you're no longer under your parents, and it's crazy what happens in that college world. So how can we help kids get ready for it so they don't fall into it? And that's part of the discipleship process at. That's been real challenging for the local church to grab a hold of. Been real challenging for me as a leader in the church to grab a hold of. So we're trying to utilize not only that book, but a strategy to really put into place to really grow these young leaders up so they're ready. I think a lot of them fall because they're just not ready. It's not because they're bad kids or they don't love Jesus, or we did a bad job as youth pastors or whatever. You know, we get accused of so much. I don't think it's any of that. Just think some of them weren't really ready because we weren't honest. [00:19:18] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:18] Speaker B: Well, that book gets real honest and it allows us as leaders to be honest. And now we're a little more prepared so that we can stand up and love Jesus in college and the kids that do make a big impact in colleges. God's doing something in college students right now. [00:19:33] Speaker A: Yes, he is. [00:19:34] Speaker B: It's amazing to watch. [00:19:35] Speaker A: Yes, he is. Well, cool. That's a great idea. Do it on Sunday mornings. We, we would do something on Sunday evenings for five or six weeks to try to help with that transition. But I love the idea of Sunday morning. You're probably going to reach a bigger crowd of students that way. And then we would have parents involved. Like we didn't require them, but we strongly encouraged them to be there, to be a part. But you could do that even on Sunday morning. So that's great. So tell them again the name of the book because that's a really good resource. [00:20:01] Speaker B: Different College Experience, how to Follow Christ in College, written by Brian Mills and Ben Trueblood. [00:20:06] Speaker A: Very good. Well, it's a great resource, man. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for that. [00:20:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So let's spend a few minutes, talk about leadership stuff because you led in student ministry and you led in college ministry, but it's different leading in the role that you're in now. Right? That's a different, that's a different type of leadership. I think it was. Was it. John Maxwell talked about leading from the middle? I think it was, yes. And so that's something you do as a student pastor or as a college pastor in college ministry, but it's different. So tell our listeners about what you're doing now, where you're serving, and then we'll spend a few minutes talking through some leadership stuff. [00:20:36] Speaker B: Now I have an honor to be the senior pastor of a chur called Together We Church. It was Trinity Baptist Church when I took it five years ago. Church was running around 300 people and my wife and I just felt like God told us to go and partner with people. We didn't have a call to Oklahoma City. I know some pastors say I had a call to this city. We didn't feel called to Oklahoma City or to our city. We're in. When we met the search team, we felt called to actually go partner with a group of people to reach a community. And it's the most amazing people on the planet. And so we said yes to that call, made a ton of cultural changes, leadership moves, did some different things along the way, partnered with the staff, partnered with the people. And the church has been one of the fastest growing churches in the country for I think it's been on the top 100 list for the past four years out of all denominations, which is very unique. And that's a credit to how our people are just reaching one person at a time for Jesus. And so, yeah, we're seeing a big move of God happening at Together We Church. It's in Yukon, Oklahoma, which is on the west side of Oklahoma City. And we're just experiencing a lot of unchurched people come and meet Jesus and lives being changed. And the testimonies that are happening in the baptism every week are so life giving. And it is a great joy to walk in our room each and every week to see how people worship, how they serve, how they love Jesus, how they've invited people to come to church, how they leverage their influence to be kingdom influencers for the kingdom of God. And so, yeah, we're living a dream. But it is way different pastoring a church than it is even being a youth pastor of a large ministry or a college pastor. And it was funny. Bill, you appreciate this. As a staff member, I always thought, man, it's not that hard to pastor. I always thought that, you know, as a youth pastor, I was like, man, come on, these pastors, man, they make it. Yeah. I owe all of an apology because there's a different weight and different expectation and a different feel to being a senior pastor. But it is a call. And I know I'm living in my call. My brother's doing the same thing and been through the same journey. And living in that call is really special. And so it is a different weight. But we accept, accept the weight to say yes to what God's allowing us to be a part of. And it's fun to watch what's happening through together. We church. [00:23:04] Speaker A: That's awesome. Very cool. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:06] Speaker A: Well, one of the things about leadership is regardless of your context, size, anything like that, in order to be an effective leader, you have to be a good leader of yourself personally. Right. Like that. Because again, ideally, you want to lead out of the overflow, I would assume. Right, Right. So talk for just a couple minutes about personal leadership. [00:23:27] Speaker B: Great. [00:23:27] Speaker A: The importance of that. [00:23:29] Speaker B: Yeah. I think if you don't lead yourself, you can't lead people. So many people get on a stage and then the stage crucifies them and kills them. They make it to the mountaintop, they fall off the cliff because they weren't ready for the mountain because they didn't develop who they were. And if you don't allow personal development to take place, then you can't handle the stage before you because the stage is going to crush you when everybody starts shouting your name and telling you, oh, that's an awesome sermon and praising you. If you aren't personally ready, then the praise of others will be your downfall. And we find that all through the Bible. I mean, we could throw out so much characteristics through Scripture on this very example, but to save time. So what have I personally done to help grow in that? Well, the basics. Number one, I read my Bible every day. There's no question. I start my day in the Word of God and I need the Word and I can't live out that which I'm not in. And so for me to live out the Word and breathe the Word and speak the Word, I need to be in the Word myself. I don't do it for my sermon prep. It's not my personal time with God, it's my personal time with God, and I need it. Then I journal what God gives me that day might be a small nugget. I'm not a big writer. Even though I've written some books, I'm not this amazing writer. That's why I always have a co author. But I do write in bullet point format of just some things the Lord gave me that day to encourage me. I always write down what God gave me. Then I moved to my prayer list and I pray through a prayer list. I don't just pray because I'll fall asleep or my mind will wander. And so I actually go through a prayer list that I have. I keep it in an evernote. And I actually jot down notes to each one of my prayers for that day. I'll put a date to it. I did it this morning, and I'll jot down notes. So it's fascinating to go back and read some things I've prayed over the years. Then I try to tie scripture to all my prayer requests. So if there's a prayer request that I have, or let's say a challenge, I don't want to fall into is pride. And so to run from pride, then I need to pray Scripture over my pride. And so I pray that over my life each and every day. I pray Ephesians 6 over my family every day. And the armor of God, I pray it over myself every day. So I go through certain scriptures that I actually pray for every day. And then if I tell somebody I'm going to pray for them, I actually put it on my prayer list to actually pray for them. And one action I try to do is often if I'm praying for them weekly, I don't send them a text every week, but I will send them a text once a month. Hey, just want you to know, I prayed for you or I prayed this passage of scripture over you. I want to encourage you. You asked me to pray for this and I prayed for this. And here's what I prayed for today. That's almost accountability for me and not just an encouragement to them, although it is an encouragement to them, but they asked me to do it. And accountability to me is to let them know I did that. So I do that personally. Then I recognize little moments in my life that are growing moments, and I think this is key in development. It's not always the enemy attacking you. Sometimes it's God growing you. And even at the pastors conference, I'm going to look at the life of Jonah in it. And I'm not going to talk about this piece, but it's an important piece. Everything Jonah experienced, God provided. He provided the well, he provided the storm, he provided. The wind, he provided the worm, he provided. God provided all of it. Now, would we look at all of that and say, the enemy's attacking me. The enemy's attack. The enemy sent a well, the enemy sent a storm. The enemy. Sometimes God's trying to get us ready for something, and we might want to pull back and not see it as the enemy's attack, but God's preparation. And so I try to view some things in my life and say, okay, that's a real challenge. It the enemy attacking me, or is God trying to grow me? Now, there are certain things enemies go throw my way, pornography or temptation or, okay, that's not God growing you up. Okay, let's not mistake what we're saying here. But there's challenges. There might be a challenging person in my life. What if God's trying to grow my patience and he blessed me with that, he provided that individual to strengthen me, so my leadership goes up. So what am I learning from that? So here's an act I've actually started to do in my self development. When I hit those challenging leadership moments, those challenging people I go to, I do it all. On Evernote, I have a journal on Evernote, I go to my Evernote and I'll type out, here's a challenge I had this week with this person. Here's what I learned from that. And I'll write down the lessons I learned for self development and so that God can at least use that person. The enemy might have sent them, but God used them. Come on. Right? But God used that person to grow me. So I see every moment as a growing moment, even my most difficult seasons. And I learned that through my most difficult season. And I want to. I want to build bigger roots. I want to dig deeper roots into who I am so that God can grow a bigger tree. To get a bigger tree, you Got to have bigger and better and stronger roots. And so I'm just trying to strengthen the root system of me by creating spiritual, personal development disciplines that God can use to grow me to be the greatest me he could use for what everybody sees. But what everybody sees can be my downfall if my roots aren't deep. So a large portion of my personal leadership, it's just to go deep in the roots and build as deep as roots as possible. [00:29:02] Speaker A: That's good. That's good. Especially with the dangers of celebrity Christian culture, those types of things like that. I mean, our listeners probably know. I'm sure you could. I mean, we could talk, do a whole episode on guys who just. They just fail right over those types of things. [00:29:16] Speaker B: And it's easy. [00:29:17] Speaker A: It is. [00:29:18] Speaker B: Especially you get in a growing church, and everybody says to me, man, pastor, since you've come, man, since you've been here, since you've been around, and you'll always hear me stop on the name of our church. Together, we church. I go hold up. Together, we. I know, but it's been. Since you've been here. No, it hadn't. It started in 1979. There was a move of God that happened in 1979. Now, did it kind of get away at times? Yes, but that move of God was happening since 1979 at Trinity Baptist Church in UConn. I just get to be a part of it today. It's together, we. We're together, we church. I have to do that to remind the people, but I need to do it to remind myself. I take out the garbage in our church. It doesn't matter how big our church has gotten. I can. If a member is carrying out garbage, I can carry garbage with them. I am not too good to carry the garbage out to the truck. And I just created little disciplines in my life that remind me, hey, you're not too awesome. Stay humble. Stay holy, stay low. I love what Pastor Nick Floyd always says at Cross Church, which one of the most humble, greatest leaders I know. He always says, man, let's just stay low before the Lord, and let's just raise up the Lord. Let God be high and exalted. Let's stay low. And I love how Dr. Nick Floyd always mentions that to his team. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. Well, that leads into one final question I wanted to ask, because that's a great leadership principle to pick up early on than it is later on in ministry. Right? [00:30:55] Speaker B: Come on, pick it up early. You will learn it. [00:30:58] Speaker A: Yes. You will just learn it early so. [00:31:01] Speaker B: You don't have to experience the fall too late. [00:31:02] Speaker A: That's right, man. And so we have quite a few folks that listen that are what we would call young leaders. So anything specific that you would push them toward, along those lines of things that they need to know. Leadership as they kind of get started, either in their call to ministry or just service in the local church. Even if it's not like a full time call to ministry. [00:31:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say create your disciplines today, don't wait till tomorrow. If you create your disciplines today, you'll be prepared a lot more for tomorrow. Don't expect to be at the top today. Lean into where you are today and maximize it. And if you're an intern cleaning out toilets, you make sure they're the cleanest toilets you've ever had. And you might be called to ministry. You might think, well, I'm called to preach. Well, not today. You're called to set up chairs so you set the straightest rows, you row tables better than anybody can row them. You clean toilets. And if that teenager messed all over that toilet, you go clean it up with joy and you be who you are and where God has you today and lean into it. That way God can prepare you and develop you for tomorrow, but you won't be ready for tomorrow unless you really lean into today. So young leaders, don't just try to take the stage today. The stage can destroy you. It's not about just standing up preaching. That's a small portion of percentage of our time we do as pastors. The majority of it's with people. So I would give them this nugget to learn interpersonal skills, to actually connect with adults and leaders face to face, one on one, eye to eye. Set up as many lunches as you can. When you meet a leader, ask them, can I have lunch with you once a month? Connect with people. Don't expect to lead the room, just be in the room. You one day might get to lead the room. But don't worry about leading the room. Just try to get yourself in every room you can. Even if you have to carry somebody's luggage to get in there, be willing to do that and you'll start growing today so that you can be a mega leader tomorrow. [00:32:57] Speaker A: Cool, that's great. Any resources that you would point young leaders to? And when you see God working in somebody's life, maybe not necessarily a call to ministry, but just somebody who you're like, that person's got leadership potential in our church or in ministry circles, something like that. Any particular resources you like to Point folks towards. [00:33:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I would podcast conservative, good godly leaders who are older and who have remained faithful late in their life. Find some older pastors and stuff and just listen and learn from them. Anything John Maxwell writes, I read. And they're all the same. I get it now. I mean, it's just. Yeah, but I still read it. There's a lot of pastors out there that. That I'm a big fan of that encourage me in my leadership. I go to conferences and actually learn and grow from them. I'm at the Arkansas Baptist Conference, but I'm here invited to speak. But I also want to hang around the people. There's great pastors in this room I can learn a lot from. And I would encourage you just because somebody might not have succeeded at as high a level as you long to be one day, but they've succeeded in a little nugget area. You might want to learn that nugget area. And for me, there's people out here that might not have led tens of thousands of people in their church. They might add a smaller church, but they were great at raising money and learning how to teach about giving. I need to learn that. I need to grow in that as a pastor. So I asked their help and lean into them so they can encourage me and breathe life into me. And then business leaders, you get around, get around, grow from them. Especially godly business leaders that are in all these churches. Why not go spend time with them? They would love to spend time with you if you'll just ask them. But if you ask them, you honor them. [00:34:50] Speaker A: You. [00:34:50] Speaker B: You be early to the meeting. You stay late to the meeting. You take notes in the meeting. Don't waste their time, and they'll give you more time. Waste their time and they'll be done with you. [00:34:59] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good, man. Yeah, very good. Well, Brian, thanks for taking opportunity while you were here with us, man, giving us a few minutes doing a podcast. Appreciate it very much, and thank you, listeners. We're glad to have you listening with us. Want to remind you that Lead Defend is coming up March 8th in 2025. So just a few months away from when you're hearing this, we got a great, great lineup of folks coming. Jamie Dew is going to be back with us this year, and Sean Emery is going to be there. Lee Strobel is going to be one of our feature speakers. And don't forget, a few years ago, along with Lead Defend, we launched foundations for junior high students for those in sixth through ninth grade. So we got something for sixth through ninth and then 10th through 12th. And college students will be up at Lead Defend, and that will be at Emanuel Baptist in Little Rock. So check out leaddefend.org for more information. Brian, thanks again for your time, man. [00:35:43] Speaker B: Thank you. Honored to be a part. [00:35:44] Speaker A: We'll see you on the next podcast. [00:35:46] Speaker B: That's it for this episode of Lead Defend. [00:35:49] Speaker A: To hear more episodes from the Lead defend crew, visit absc.org podcasts if you liked what you heard, rate and review us on your favorite podcast listening site. [00:36:00] Speaker B: Want to learn more information about the next Lead Defend conference? Visit leaddefend.org.