Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to the Lead Defend podcast, a show designed to help you grow in faith and leadership as you navigate the stages of young adulthood. We address important faith topics and provide practical life tips, helping you build up your faith as you engage a changing culture.
Now, here are your hosts.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Well, we are back with another season of Lead Defend. It's been a while. My name is Brock. I've got Bill with me. Bill, what have you been up to since we last recorded?
[00:00:39] Speaker C: Man, it's been wild. Just between summer camps and D nows and retreats and getting school stuff kicked off and working on some of the fuel and fire events, there's been a ton going on, man, and maybe a.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Little dissertating as well.
[00:00:51] Speaker C: I am all done.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: You're done?
[00:00:53] Speaker C: I'm finished. So real quick, approved and graduated.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: Give us a little teaser because we're going to do an episode about this soon. Like, what have you been working on? What's your project been, and where are you doing it? Is it Baylor?
[00:01:03] Speaker C: Yeah. So I was at Truitt Seminary Baylor was there for four years and got to graduate in May, so that was good.
So the project was on transgender ideology and the concept of embodiment. And really the idea was to develop something for the local church as a resource, not just to teach people their theology, but also to develop what I would call a conversational guide. Like answering the question, how do you have what I would call productive conversations with people on that topic that are coworkers, friends, and family? So that you end up on what I would call the same side of the table, not the opposite side of the table.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: So, yeah, so it's an interesting process because you develop the project, but then you have to test it to see if it's a success or a failure. See if it's effective or not and you're graduating doesn't depend on whether or not it's a success or failure. It's just, did it work? Did it not? If it didn't, what could I do different next time? But I was really pleased that there was about 50 people that tested this at a church in North Little Rock. And, man, the pre test and post test were through the roof as far as being successful. So, yeah. So looking forward to. You and I have talked about maybe doing some podcasts, either a monologue or you and I together kind of walking through the different parts of that project. Not just the theology, but what do those conversations look like? History, all those types of things.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Yeah, we're definitely going to have to unpack that in the Future. That's super interesting. The. The biggest question I have, though, is like, to go to Baylor to Truitt Seminary. Like, did you have to become a Baylor Bears fan? Like, are you saying sic em Bears?
[00:02:30] Speaker C: I am not, but I was grateful for all the scholarships they provided. I will say that.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Where's your college loyalty? Do you have a college sport loyalty?
[00:02:38] Speaker C: No, I don't really.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: 49Ers.
[00:02:40] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm a hardcore Niners fan in college. I root for Arkansas, but that's because that's where I grew up. But yeah, the colleges that I attended aren't really well known on the national level for their football teams. Matter of fact, one of them didn't even have a football team, so.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Well, cool. Well, today we're going to be talking to someone that I've known for a while. We have Wade Wilson in today for the Lead Defend podcast. Wade grew up at First Baptist Rogers, where I now am on staff. And actually, when I came as the middle school pastor 7ish years ago, Wade was in the high school ministry. And so I've got to see him grow, graduate, go off to college, and now come back. And so, Wade, I've shared a little bit about you, but. But tell the listeners a little bit about yourself.
[00:03:25] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah, I'm Wade. I grew up at First Baptist Rogers.
[00:03:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:03:32] Speaker D: Just grew up surrounded by the love of God, my church, with my family, with my friends.
So I was saved at a young age there when I was 8 years old.
Yeah. Just knew that I was a sinner in need of a savior and that God offered forgiveness and life through Jesus. So, yeah, I made that decision when I was 8 and fast forward and I was 16, really praying heavily that God would show me what he wanted me to do with my life. And he called me very clearly to be a pastor. And that really changed the trajectory of my life. And I went to Ouachita Baptist University and studied Christian studies there. And God really made me who I am at that college. And then right after that, went to New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary and just graduated from there with my M. Div.
And while I was there, I was really praying a lot about what God wanted me to do. After graduating, I was thinking about getting my doctorate or something like that, but I had some people tell me that the best thing that they did as a single man was do the journeyman program with the International Mission Board. So I was like, oh, man, I'm single. I'm gonna do that. I started praying about a country in Africa.
And while I was doing that. I didn't realize that the person who would be my future wife was in that same country and was also in the journeyman program to go there.
[00:05:02] Speaker C: And.
[00:05:02] Speaker D: And so she came back and we, we like started talking and then dating and we just got married about a month ago. And so we are in the journeyman process.
[00:05:10] Speaker B: Man, I bet we'd have a lot more people interested in the journeyman program if that, like, if that came as a promise, guaranteed give two years of your life over overseas, which is what the journeyman is. It's two years, right? Yes.
[00:05:23] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a two year program for young people. And some there. There have been times that you have to be single, but they're in a time right now that you can get married and go, but you have to.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: Be married for a year before they'll send you. So. Yeah, so right now Wade is in our church planting residency at our church. While they are awaiting that one year period before we can see them sent off.
And we want to just talk today a little bit about that. I figure there's a lot of listeners that we have that maybe they don't realize the opportunity. We've talked before with some IMB personnel about opportunities that there are. You can go and look at those episodes to either do short term trips or longer term stints overseas, whether you're in high school or whether you're in college or even graduated from college like Wade is. But we've never had somebody on that's actually in that process themselves. And so we wanted you to hear from someone who's actually gone through that. You know, Wade, you mentioned back when you were 16 that you began wrestling with a call to ministry. I imagine we have some other, either high schoolers, college students maybe are wrestling with that same thing, or we have some. Some church leaders who are encouraging shepherding people who are wrestling through that. What did it look like for God to call you into pastoral ministry at the age of 16? And was there anything that the church did to help that? Or maybe there were some things that we missed. Were there some things you wish the church did to help shepherd you foster that calling that maybe you could encourage some listeners to do now?
[00:06:52] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. A lot of things came to my mind.
First of all, I was just faithfully discipled by my church. There was a man that discipled a group of young men.
And that was probably the biggest thing was that he led us into his life and we got to learn from him and just talk about the Bible together and have fun together.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: And to clarify for our listeners, because I know what you're talking about, that wasn't a pastor or staff member. That was a volunteer life group leader.
Yeah.
[00:07:24] Speaker D: Yes, sir. So, yeah, just. Just growing up in the church, just seeing it modeled and exampled, and, you know, as a high school boy, you. You just need to keep following Jesus and learning more.
There's so much areas to grow, so many areas to grow. And so, yeah, that was probably the best. The best thing that did it for me.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: There were.
[00:07:47] Speaker D: I just. I just asked a bunch of questions. I think I was. I was very interested. And really, I think it was the grace of God that he just put a burden on my heart that I just knew I did not want to go somewhere or do something that the Lord was not in and blessing and doing.
And so, yeah, I just started praying, lord, show me what you want me to do with my life. And I was praying that very hard for a couple of weeks.
And yeah, I know some people, it happens. Like what it happened for me, but. But God just very clearly answered me. I was at Super Summer at Ouachita Baptist University on my knees and just prayed that prayer. And just the word Pastor just washed over me. And yeah, it was. It was just the voice of God that answered me. And I know it's not like that for everybody, but I think of the verse you. You ask and. And it will be given to you and seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: And.
[00:08:44] Speaker D: And yeah, Lord just put it very heavy on my heart to ask him. And he showed me that.
But also my youth pastor, so Chris Roller, he poured into my life after that. He met with me over the course of a year and we went through some books together and really just kind of showed me what the mind of a pastor is like and what the life of a pastor, family life and stuff like that.
So that really showed me just what. What God was leading me into.
I read. I read a book called Is God Calling Me? By Jeff York. And I also, last night I looked at a book called.
I think it was called Discerning youg Call to ministry.
Yeah. By Dr. Allen. That also looked really good. And they were both just very short books with just. I think that one was the contents were like questions that maybe a young. A young man looking at what the pastor. The pastorship would look like. And yeah, those look like just. Well, the Is God Calling Me? Book, that was a very good book for me. It just kind of put a lot of my Thoughts to words and helped me understand what does it mean to be called to ministry and what does that look like, being called into ministry. But yeah, probably. Probably just my pastor, my youth pastor, sharing his life with me, meeting with me. He gave me a chance to teach a couple times and to preach on a Wednesday night. And that was very, very helpful for me.
But yeah, I also just was still in that discipleship group with that, that volunteer life group leader.
And yeah, just continued following the Lord through that and just serving the church. And probably, probably the other biggest thing was just finding areas at the church that I could serve in.
And yeah, from, from, like middle school, I was serving in the kids ministry and just kind of learning how to teach and making mistakes, messing up, talking to people about it, how you can get better. There was an old lady. I was maybe not old lady. I learned recently that that's a derogatory term.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Depends on if they consider themselves an old lady or not.
[00:10:51] Speaker C: Listen, age is relative, my friend.
[00:10:54] Speaker D: Anyways, she. I mean, I taught a class with an elderly lady for two years and I just learned so much from her. She was like a school teacher. So, yeah, just being at church, being involved in things.
Loving Jesus's bride.
It's the. It's the bride of Christ and. And he's going to come back for her. And sometimes it's not pretty, but she is so precious to him.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:19] Speaker D: And so, yeah, just loving. Loving the bride of Christ as best you can and learn how to do that. Well, yeah, those were some things that I think helped me a lot.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: We had Jeff George on a while back to talk about that in another book. And so if you're interested in that, go back and listen to that episode. But one of the things he points out in his book that I think you would hear and summarize from, one of the things that you just said, Wade, is when you're dealing with that call to ministry, that internal call, your experience at Super Summer, you know, I'm sure at the time you're reading through scripture, you mentioned that ask and you will receive. So there's like a scriptural affirmation of the call and then also like an external call through someone in your life, whether it's your youth pastor or a life group leader or other people. And then the other thing that I heard you say is, you know, some people feel called to ministry and they go off to college like you did at Ouachita, and which I found out the other day, I pronounce it wrong. It's not Chita.
[00:12:15] Speaker C: It's just Ouachita like you washing your clothes, but you're washing your.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: I apologize to any of our listeners that are alumni that I offend, and Mitchell always gives me a hard time about that.
But you didn't have this calling and say, all right, I'm going to go off and prepare, and then once I'm done preparing, I'm going to serve. You started preparing or you started finding areas to serve after you were called. And so I think that's a great way to find affirmation in your calling is through opportunities to test it out. Don't just start preparing. Go to college or seminary and start learning a bunch like, start serving immediately. Start looking for opportunities. And it may not be, you know, preaching. It may not be leading worship. It could be serving in some other area of ministry, but that's another great way to test out the call as well.
[00:13:03] Speaker C: Yeah. So I think sometimes when people think of call to ministry, they think of it kind of being somewhat of a straight line. But it sounds like to me you're having a little bit of a zigzag. And what I mean by that is you talked about the word pastor kind of washing over you as a revelation.
[00:13:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:17] Speaker C: Yet you are going to fix and spend two years in Africa not doing that.
So why, What. What does that look like for you? Do you think in the big picture, like most, most guys in your situation would come out of seminary and begin looking for a church or entering the church plant pipeline like you guys have and then church planting. Yeah. You're not, not. Not doing a timeout, but you're kind of taking this zigzag.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:42] Speaker C: Into the IMB Journeyman program for two years.
[00:13:46] Speaker D: Yeah, that. That is a very good question.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: The.
[00:13:50] Speaker D: My calling as a pastor and sick when I was 16 has definitely defined every decision that I've made since then.
And.
Yeah, really, really just kind of explaining the zigzag pattern of it is that I think, I mean, you just keep following God after that and seeing where he's leading you and what's going on. And so, yeah, my calling to pastor has really helped me make those decisions.
And I don't see the going to do the journeyman program as like a pause on that or anything. I see it as still obeying that call that God has, Has. Has called me to.
Yeah. In fact, I've. I've talked to a few pastors in the States as I was really trying to discern if I needed to do this.
Who. Who did the journeyman program. And man, they just said it just made me a better pastor in every way.
I've also, you know, with it. I've also just always kind of had my yes on the table for God of once I knew that I was called to be a pastor.
I don't know where yet.
And I just know that I'm willing to go wherever for God. And I've told him that, and my wife has told him that too, before we started dating and everything.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: One of the things that kind of come to mind is I would say probably the best missionaries are the ones that they may not have the title of pastor, but the best missionaries are pastoral. They are great shepherds, they have a heart for people. And so it's not like you have one clear, distinct calling as pastor, one clear, distinct calling as missionary. Those things I think can overlap quite a bit in the same way that I would say, hey, the best pastors probably have very missionary focused vision and hearts to reach lost people. In the same way that the best missionaries have a heart to shepherd and pastor people. They love the local church and want to see the church in those areas get stronger, be a resource to those, those local pastors, wherever it is in the world.
But one of the things that I wonder about is what even brought that to your mind? Bill alluded to the fact that for a lot of guys, you know, you graduate and you start looking for a job, but obviously something captured your attention, something burdened you to say, well, what about the nations?
And you know, not just, hey, that's something for someone else to go, but I think I'm supposed to go. What did that process look like?
[00:16:38] Speaker D: Yeah, I think it looked like just being willing.
Yeah, I don't think it's a.
I think Jesus asks us all to be willing to obey him wherever, wherever he wants us to go.
And yeah, I think it's all of our responsibilities to say, God, I'm willing to go wherever. And maybe that's staying exactly where you are, but just being willing.
And so, yeah, I think it started with that for me, just being willing to go wherever for him.
It also looked like I grew up at a church that we had lots of short term mission trips in the States and overseas. And so I got a little taste of what being a missionary would look like just by being able to meet a lot of missionaries. And my church just talked about it a lot and had some.
We had missionaries at our church often where I could talk to them and meet them and yeah, so. So it looked like being willing. It looked like just being familiar with, with missionaries throughout my life.
And yeah, Brock, I'm sorry, I kind of forgot.
[00:17:56] Speaker B: That's great. That's. I think that's really helpful. So if someone was listening and they're like, huh, Like I, I was going to college, like my thought was planting pastoring here in the States.
I've never even really thought about the potential of going overseas. Or maybe they're listening and they're thinking, I thought I had to give the rest of my life away to go be a missionary. I didn't realize that I could do it for two years and then reevaluate. What might you say to that person who's kind of considering this for the very first time?
[00:18:29] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: How would you might encourage them to consider this as a possibility for them?
[00:18:33] Speaker D: Yeah, man. I would suggest talking to people who've done it before.
That's been the most helpful thing for me.
Yeah, it was very helpful for me when I had.
There were some people at New Orleans Baptist Seminary who showed me, talked to me a lot about what it was like for them, what the process is like to go through with it.
The journeyman program is amazing because it's a fully funded.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: So they don't have to fundraise at all.
[00:19:12] Speaker D: No, you don't have to fundraise at all.
But because someone's offering money is paying for you to go, it's really amazing that they do a long process to make sure that they're sending someone who knows what they're doing and who is mature spiritually, emotionally healthy physically, even.
So there's, it's a long way to go to make sure that they're sending someone with someone's offering money who'll do a good job.
Yeah. So kind of what I did was I just said like, it's not a commitment to just go ahead and start.
And so was still kind of praying through it, maybe if I should do it. And I think, I think it's helpful to just start walking in a direction sometimes. To see what. Absolutely see what God's going to do, if he's going to bless that or shut that door. And so, so that's, that's what I did. And yeah, the ball just started rolling. And God's definitely best set. Yeah.
[00:20:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: So just, just because you reach out to an IMB personnel or you go to imb.org and you start looking at the journeyman program and maybe even you fill it out and start the process, you don't have to be worried about necessarily even going. It just gets the ball rolling. To see if God would open that door or close that door.
[00:20:36] Speaker C: Yep. So for someone who might be interested in knowing more, maybe beginning that process or just checking into it, how do they do that?
[00:20:44] Speaker D: Yeah, I would definitely say going to imb.org there's, there's so much, so, so many places ago on that website.
Yeah. And there, there's, there's a place for journeymen somewhere there. There's also, if you go on the IMB website, you can just scroll through, they have like a list of jobs and places that you can go. And some of them aren't for two years, but some of them are for the summer for a few weeks.
They're just things on their website you can just sign up for and go.
And so yeah, I'd probably suggest that scrolling through that. If you know any missionaries, I would suggest talking to them, just asking them about their life, what they do, where they get their groceries, you know, how they raise their kids, what their marriage is like, what church is like for them. And yeah, just see if it's something that interests you or something that just really turns you off. So, yeah, the first step to making a big decision is getting as much information as you can. And probably the IMB website is the first place to go for that.
[00:21:53] Speaker C: And for those who aren't familiar, the IMB stands for the International Mission Board. And if you give to your local church, you probably give to the International Mission Board. Whether you know it or not, that would probably be a podcast for another day. But one of the great things of Southern Baptist is the co opter program. That's one of the reasons you don't have to raise funds for two years to go to Journeyman program. You guys can just go, you and your wife can go without having to worry about all the finances that come with that because of the money that people give that goes in part to the International Mission Board.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: And you have a huge support, backing of, of resources, safety nets, connections to where you really don't feel like you're going alone. And you, you have the backing of 40, 000 churches who are helping, funding. I don't think I could ever survive as a fundraiser missionary.
Never have to depend on raising money. And so that's definitely a huge benefit. But Wade, I'm curious, as you think, about a year from now, Lord willing, you will be headed out to a country in Africa with your wife.
What just gets you excited about thinking like what makes your heart race a little bit?
What gets you, you know, excited about thinking about being on the field about a year from now. Yeah.
[00:23:14] Speaker D: A lot does. So I got to kind of narrow it down, but it just feels like a big adventure and that's, that's something that feels really exciting. And I'm sure to just a lot of young people too, you're really going on an adventure there. There are some other, there's. There's some other programs even besides the journeyman program, where they'll have you out in like totally off the grid in the middle of nowhere, needing to share Jesus with people who have never heard the gospel before. And there are some areas like that in the country that I'm going to be in.
I actually really love learning languages.
I'm really excited to learn a language and connect with the people in that way.
I'm excited.
Me and my wife have started talking with the team in the country that we want to go to.
And their family is just a really wonderful family and a really wonderful team.
I've heard that that's also very helpful for people thinking about doing missions is if you could get connected with, with a team in that country even beforehand and start talking with them and kind of learning about them.
Because that, the reality is if you do the journeyman program, that's a family, a team you'd be with for two years.
And it's very, very good to make sure that you can be led by them, you agree with them, you're excited to do ministry with them. And so that's his family that we're going to be with.
Also the work there.
When I was looking for somewhere to go, I wanted to go somewhere that I could exercise my call to be a pastor. And there are lots of young men in, in this place that need discipling and need someone to walk alongside them and also to give them some more sound theological teachings. So it's really cool that I'm doing it this after being equipped through seminary as well.
And so, yeah, so I'm excited to come alongside some young men who are pastors in this country and just being a friend of them, that, that, that's the job description that I've been given is being a friend to pastors in this country. And that's something that really excites me and I think is exercising my call to be a pastor of discipling some, some other people who are pastoring their, their congregations.
Yeah, those are a few things.
[00:25:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:39] Speaker D: The country also just is really beautiful and some like wildlife.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:25:45] Speaker D: Yeah. I love being out in nature and stuff. So I'm excited for stuff that like like that?
[00:25:49] Speaker B: No, that's great. And if you're listening to this and you're thinking, man, that all sounds good, but I just don't know if I could live in Africa for two years. There's places all over the world that the IMB is sending people. Maybe it's not Africa.
Maybe it's Europe. Maybe it's, it's Central America.
Don't, don't be limited by a place or even, even to a place. I mean, certainly I think the Lord can lead us to the right places, but who knows where. Where God might send you, but there, there is no greater calling, no greater purpose that you can give yourself to.
Then the lost, and particularly the nations coming to know that Jesus is Lord and having their eternities changed forever because of their ability to believe in the Gospel because someone brought it to them so that they could hear it. And so maybe the Lord is calling you to give two years of your life or a shorter amount of time on another trip to going to a different country, just like Wade is going to.
Maybe he's not. But with that being the greatest calling that you can give your life to, I think you're missing out on at least not ask. Not at least asking God, is this something that you're calling me to? I think every single one of us listening could in some way ask God, are you calling me to more? Are you calling me? Are you giving me an invitation? Are you giving me an opportunity to do something like this and at least see if God will open the door and consider it? Wade, thank you so much for being on here. I'd encourage you listeners pray for Wade and his wife Harley as they get ready to go and prepare over this next year to go overseas and serve another country. We appreciate him and so many like him who are going and giving of their time so that others might be able to hear about the good news of Jesus dying on the cross and raising from the dead to pay for their sins and to purchase for them a place in heaven.
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Lead Defend. Catch us next time as we have some more guests on throughout the next two days at the Arkansas Baptist State Convention. And also always remember that Lead Defend is coming up. We're excited about lead defend 2027 any. Anyway, I'm already excited about 2027. I'm living in the future.
Yeah, I'm thinking about the fact that in March of 2026 we'll have a third kid. And so everything in my mind is 2027 at this point. Can we, can we drop any teasers of personalities?
[00:28:06] Speaker C: Yeah, man. Actually, we just launched it on the website and the mail outs are in the office getting ready to go out. So for Lead Defend, up the hill, what we call up the hill for 10th through 12th grade in college, all the old people, we've got. All the old people, we've got Greg Kokel coming.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:28:19] Speaker C: Greg has been on my list for about six or seven years, so I'm super excited to get Greg there.
He's going to be there for apologetics. Walter Strickland is coming in, and we're still working on one other main stage personality. We're beginning working on the breakouts now and then for foundations, which is down the hill at the city center. My people, one of the things I'm super excited about, I've been interested in for a couple of years is is there a way just to bring in some personalities, just to focus on foundations and our middle school students? And so we're going to be able to do that this year, which I'm excited about. So we've got Mark Middleburg coming. He is going to be there on the apologetic side. And then the leadership side is a guy named Tom Richter.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: Hey.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: Yep, Tom's. Tom's out of state, but if you've ever been to something like Extreme Winter, something along those lines, Tom is featured regular at that. And so we've got a really good lineup this year.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: That man has a lot of energy.
[00:29:06] Speaker C: Yes, he does. Yes, he does. So check out leaddefend.org registration opens very, very soon. And to be honest, we are expecting to be a sellout. So the sooner you can register, the better. If you're a college student, be sure and check with your bcm, your, your campus BCM guy, if your campus has a bcm, because I'm sure they will be bringing a group as well.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. We look forward to seeing you guys there. And we will be back next time here on Lead Defend.
[00:29:29] Speaker C: We'll see you then.
[00:29:31] Speaker A: That's it for this episode of Lead Defend. To hear more episodes from the Lead defend crew, visit absc.org podcasts if you liked what you heard, rate and review us on your favorite podcast listening site. Want to learn more information about the next Lead Defend conference, visit leaddefend. Org.
